Agency Partner

How to create value with your partners for both Marketing and Partnerships KPIs w/ Maddy, VP of Marketing at

Alex Glenn
April 21, 2021
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Agency Partner
April 21, 2021

How to create value with your partners for both Marketing and Partnerships KPIs w/ Maddy, VP of Marketing at

“What resonates the most is when somebody has done the due diligence enough to understand the type of clients we're working with and the type of solutions that are going to benefit us.”

In this Episode, we speak to Maddy Martin, VP of Marketing (and partnerships) for, and one of her more active agency partners Matt Burke, CEO of Zillametrics. Our goal was to unpack their partnership to determine what makes it so successful for both parties. How to find and enable thought leader agencies to create content with you to attract both users and other agencies. Aligning on target audience overlap, the content and mutual value. Supporting clients who come through those collaborations. Holding each side accountable throughout. And for Maddy - building the repeatable process around this solid example of Partner Enablement.

“What resonates the most is when somebody has done the due diligence enough to understand the type of clients we're working with and the type of solutions that are going to benefit us.” - Matt Burke

  • How to attract thought leader agency partners.
  • How to enable them to create help-desk quality case studies for your blog.
  • The strategy for taking the client testimonial > matching that to an agency facilitator > and enabling the agency to showcase it on your blog as well as theirs.
  • How Maddy helped speed up the case study creation by making introductions.
  • How Matt would want to start and progress a new partnership.
  • Maddy’s routine for finding and reaching out to agencies to get a calendar event.
  • Matt’s advice to any tech teams to ensure a successful partnership.
  • Maddy’s survey suggestion to uncover new partnership opportunities.


[00:03:38] - Intros

[00:06:16] - Overview of the outcome of their partnership

[00:11:04] - Whatenabled Matt to be productive

[00:14:20] - Maddy’s SOPs and advice

[00:23:30] - How Matt likes to vet partnerships

[00:33:24] - How to approach Matt’s agency persona

[00:35:29] - Final advice from Maddy


Here’s the article Matt created for - The leading sending platform. - Partner tracking and payouts. - A free account mapping solution.

Episode Transcript


Maddy: [00:00:00] What can you deduce already from the information that you have to have a great first call.

[00:00:05] Matt: [00:00:05] What resonates the most is when somebody has done the due diligence enough to understand the type of clients we're working with and the type of solutions that are going to benefit us.

[00:00:14] Maddy: [00:00:14] them. You're right. You're often really right in the conversation kicks off in a very strong way because they sense that you're already making their link sharing, not dilution.

[00:00:26] Welcome to make them famous. The podcast 

[00:00:28] Alex: [00:00:28] about partner enablement, the only podcast uncover both how partner teams enabled their partners and how other 

[00:00:34] Maddy: [00:00:34] department leaders enable their partner teams to achieve success. 

[00:00:40] Alex: [00:00:40] All right. So welcome back to the podcast. We've got an awesome discussion lined up.

[00:00:45] For you today with me is Maddie Martin, VP of marketing for Smith, AI, and Matt Burke, founder, CEO of Zilla metrics. We'll get into who they are in a minute, but what we want to uncover in this episode is how to find an enabler. Thought leader agencies, these awesome subject matter expertise agencies to create content with you to attract both users and other agency partners align with that agency on target audience overlap the content as well as mutual value coast, supporting clients who come through those collaborations.

[00:01:23] Holding each side accountable throughout and for Mattie building this into a repeatable process that future partner managers can run applications. Of course, we couldn't make this podcast famous without our amazing sponsors for sponsorship we aimed for not only great products, but tech use to power.

[00:01:42] Some of the top partner programs around we've invited partner stack share work and send DOSO to be those sponsors partner stack. For those of you unfamiliar. Is the leading partner management platform or PRM for SAS companies like Monday Unbounce in our comm and web flow. And it is a company we've worked closely with.

[00:02:01] We advise many of our post-program market fit clients to demo partner stack when they are ready to scale revenue through partnerships. We've talked a lot about co-selling in this podcast. So please check out our sponsor. For co-selling share a free app that allows partnership managers at top companies like Qualtrics FullStory smart recruiters and San DOSO to easily generate partner sourced and partner influenced deals.

[00:02:29] Thanks to realtime and unlimited account mapping share work is offering all, make them famous listeners a three month free account to map unlimited accounts. Generate leads. And attribute revenue to partnership managers efforts. You use the link below to sign up for that offer. Finally, the top sales and partnership teams around no of our third partner, CIN DOSO.

[00:02:51] The leading sending platform send DOSO is the most effective way for revenue generating teams to stand out with new ways to engage at strategic points throughout their customer journey by connecting digital and physical strategies. Companies can engage, acquire and retain customers easier than ever before.

[00:03:11] Founded in 2016, some DOSO is trusted by over 500 companies and has a vast global footprint with presence in North America, Europe and Asia Pacific. Learn more. That's a So thanks again to our amazing sponsors. Now let's get back into the episode. So first I'd like to start with some introductions, but the way we like to do intros is Maddie.

[00:03:33] Tell me who you are, title, uh, where the partner program is at today. 

[00:03:38] Maddy: [00:03:38] Sure. Uh, great to be here, Alex. Thanks for having me. Um, Maddie Martin headed. Uh, used to be head of growth and education. I'm so used to saying that, sorry, Alex, I'm the VP of marketing now as of a week ago, which is exciting then with Smith AI for the last four years, we're a 24 seven virtual receptionist and chat service.

[00:03:57] And the partner program really evolved because agencies were seeing the opportunity to own more of the funnel. So to speak, not just the clicks and calls, but also getting to the. Um, you know, conversions and facilitating more ROI from their campaigns when they have the peace of mind that the calls and chats and texts are answered, the forms are followed up with without bound calls back to that client to really produce great results from those campaigns that they poured their energy into for the client.

[00:04:31] So the partner program is. It's typically a marketing agency coming to Smith, AI and saying, you know, how can we deliver better results together for our mutual clients? 

[00:04:41] Alex: [00:04:41] He has a Maddie. Thanks for that. That was really good. And if you want to hear more from Maddie, we've got a lot of content from Maddie in.

[00:04:48] Collective dot partner under courses. We have some really awesome strategy. She's one of the best to do it. So we love talking to her about working closer with agencies, with her as one of our agency partners. I chose this duo because of something that I use as sort of a case study in the content and training that we have other partner managers through.

[00:05:10] It for me, started out as seeing this case study show up on their blog, which we'll get into in a little bit, but there's a story behind it and there's a strategy behind it and there's a lot of value to it. So we're going to try to uncover what happened and how it happened. So, Matt, why don't you give an introduction to yourself?

[00:05:27] Your agency and where you're at in Smith's partner program, as well as any other partner programs that you are officially involved in my 

[00:05:35] Matt: [00:05:35] name's Matt Burke, I'm the founder and CEO of Zella metrics. We're a digital marketing agency that helps lawyers get more from Google. We are a current partner with Smith AI, and we're also partners with call rail, 

[00:05:48] Alex: [00:05:48] have you Matt?

[00:05:48] And I will link to the article that I just mentioned in the notes below. So if you're on your computer, check that out. That's a really awesome example of partnerships in action and their best possible form. So Maddie, let's go back to you for a second. Let's talk about what it is exactly. That. You would say is the general definition of what you've gotten done with Matt.

[00:06:13] How would you describe that to people listening 

[00:06:16] Maddy: [00:06:16] stop like more and better results for clients? Thanks to, you know, having agency partners who do great work and having Smith AI's receptionist there too. Bond to those leads coming out of that group work. So what we did is we took, you know, sort of the traditional case study and we flipped it on its head and said, we're actually going to turn this into a how to, and it might seem, um, I don't know, risky maybe to, you know, share the ingredients of the, of the recipe that everyone loves and that's working and that you would go to that restaurant and get exclusively.

[00:06:51] But you know, Matt, with his generous. Spirit, um, identified with us that there was a client who was really the epitome, the example of someone who wanted her vendors to work together, Matt, in his, uh, you know, open-mindedness when it comes to growing, his agency saw exactly the value that this client saw.

[00:07:15] And we could have just done simply a case study when he came to us. And Alex, Alexis, the client came to us and said, uh, you know, I'm seeing such amazing results from that U2. Thank you so much. Many people would just say wonderful. We're so glad, you know, and maybe do you want to do a case study? We'd be happy to feature you what we did in sat and say, how do we.

[00:07:38] Really highlight this as a repeatable process that anyone could follow to enjoy similar success to account for every channel through which leads come. And I use the core products like Google analytics that clients also have visibility. And access to, to enable them to look into the work that's being done to, to bring back that curtain and deliver transparency to them and to alleviate the burden on the agency side, to always deliver all the metrics, uh, proactively.

[00:08:12] Um, so we saw, look, you know, we're not going to do a case study. We will share the highlights, the, um, the benefits of doing this work together, uh, through Zilla metrics and Smith AI in that, how to saying, look, you know, there's great results to be had here. And here's how to. Identify them to expose them into the platforms that you're using for your clients, like tag manager and analytics, and you two can repeat this exact same framework, uh, to deliver that level of visibility.

[00:08:47] Um, so it's it, it was just a fantastic, uh, content piece. Matt was very generous in, in writing that up and in donating his time, um, you know, several screenshots, really making it very easy to follow. And then, you know, living by that example with, you know, other clients of his, that that may need a similar setup, not only that, but also a great tool for him to use, to say, look, I have done this for other clients before.

[00:09:14] You know, Smith, AI chat works very well. These are the results that we have seen in the past. Um, so it's a powerful tool to make sure that your clients understand, um, there's a reason for the agency focusing on. These different services that you're providing and not just saying we're going to drive clicks, but we're going to really help you identify and drive conversions, um, and where those are coming from and, and prepare you for responding to them because that's an important factor of whether or not you see ROI.

[00:09:48] Yeah, 

[00:09:49] Alex: [00:09:49] well said, and I want to unpack a couple things in there and we'll go to Matt here for. A couple of questions and follow up on that, but the bigger thing there to understand if you're listening and you're trying to figure out where this plays a role inside of your partner program, instead of your content and strategy.

[00:10:06] Well, it's imagine a testimonial comes in, it's your job as the partner team to take a testimonial from a user and match that to an agency who facilitated that there was probably a consultant, a service provider, someone who was in that mix. Helping the client get that, um, ideal use case done. And then you have to go in and enable that agency reach out, talk to them about how they can showcase it on your blog as well as their, so you want it on both blocks.

[00:10:34] Ideally, I think is the best strategy. So Matt, you were the one that had to do. Do the work you had to put this together? Um, there are bandwidth needs. Uh, there's a, probably a little bit of, should I give away my secret sauce type of internal dialogue in there. Some agencies do this and they give away the farm.

[00:10:52] Other agencies think, you know what? I'm going to play the cards close to my vest, but let's just talk about that. Where was your head at? What was the actual timeline and what are some of the things in there that really made you want to do this? Yeah, that's a good 

[00:11:04] Matt: [00:11:04] question. Um, you know, if at the end of the day, you know, what we wanted to do is make sure that the activities that we're doing for the client or are able to be a hundred percent track because it's the only way we're able to actually measure results were month to month at the end of the day.

[00:11:17] So we, we work with clients for years and that's always our goal. But that being said it's because we deliver. So delivering at the core of it is knowing what works and what doesn't. So us solving that problem was, was really central to us on like, we know, we know we need to have this live track chat. Uh, we, we, we know we need to have it tracked and we need to be able to do that so we can run Google ads and confidently know what's working.

[00:11:42] So. You know, once we kind of went down that path, Matty was really collaborative, right from the beginning was able to put us in touch with people, get things going. Um, and you know, it was really pretty straight forward, you know, when our, our devs looked at it and then we saw that there was some GCM enabled events and we were able to just kind of write it up.

[00:11:59] And start getting it tracked. There really wasn't ever any type of, um, idea to like, you know, keep it a closely guarded secret. You know, to me, it was just something that, Hey, we solved this for the client. We actually share quite a few clients together. Um, so it was something that would obviously help more than just this one client.

[00:12:16] And that, that was kind of our mindset going 

[00:12:18] Alex: [00:12:18] into it. I love it. And the partnership is the central. Um, aspect of this whole conversation we wanna dive into really what made it an ideal, easy to execute, sort of endeavor. You made a couple of comments there. One is Maddie made intros. Talk to me a little bit about that.

[00:12:35] What introductions were made, why did they help speed this up? And then tell me from your angle, Matt, what was the proposition as well as. The reciprocity and Hey, will you create a case study for our blog? Did you find the value alone and just being featured on the blog? What was, um, the give and take internal conversation?

[00:12:55] Matt: [00:12:55] Yeah, so I mean, the intros, it was just really being able to, um, talk with the team and kind of test what our assumptions were until we saw something that was working. And, you know, once we had it deployed, saw that it was working in Google analytics and, and everything was testing correctly. Um, it was actually Maddie's idea to give us the opportunity to put.

[00:13:14] That together and post posted on the site. We're definitely happy to, um, because it's something that it was beneficial for our client beneficial really for anybody that's using that. And how we look at partnerships is we want to align with really companies that have the same type of mindset and companies that are going to be value adds for the services that we do, because you know, at the end of the day, When we're trying to grow a firm, you know, especially when you work working with solo attorneys and different things like that, they need outside vendors that are going to be able to help facilitate those extra leads and calls.

[00:13:43] Because if they're stuck on the phone, they're not doing all the other work, they need to grow their firm. So it's kind of important for us to align with that. Um, so, and that, that was really what the mindset was 

[00:13:51] Alex: [00:13:51] there. Awesome, Maddie, um, talk to me about your side. I mean, this is a situation that worked out really well for you.

[00:13:57] I know you guys do this a lot as a. Partnerships team enabling agencies in the right way, involving them in content, doing all the things that we preach and, you know, we preach. Uh, but what are some of the specific things that you really thought you were your own boss? You'd look at yourself and be like, yeah, I think I knocked that one out of the park.

[00:14:15] What are some of the things that you did that you'd like your future PMs? To really understand. Yeah. 

[00:14:20] Maddy: [00:14:20] Uh, that's a great question. So I think first of all, reading the agency and on both sides, like, is there a good dynamic, do you communicate well and are your requests, or what you're giving, is that going to come across in the way that you intend oftentimes like.

[00:14:37] We'll take a read on the situation. And the read on, on Matt was his generous spirit, how proactive he was and how collaborative he was, how he kept the client in the loop. And we felt like, okay, we have the client's permission to really work on her behalf here. How do we make this sort of the best possible, um, you know, product and service for her?

[00:14:58] How do we help Matt be really successful for her? And unlike a lot of other. Um, maybe reseller companies, solution providers, Smith. AI is extremely hands-on. So one of the things that we do that I think is not as well recognized is we will set up and test install, um, and, and iterate on. The live chat set up and the instructions and the playbook, the workflow that the live agents and the AI combined, uh, to use, um, to capture those leads.

[00:15:33] And I think that's a huge benefit for the agency to take off some of that burden. Oh, I have to learn how to program a chat bot or. Um, you know, instruct the live chat agents on how to handle the leads I'm generating for this firm. You know, Matt came in knowing that we, uh, are specialized in working with, uh, solo and small law firms.

[00:15:54] So there was that peace of mind and that sort of relate-ability at the outset. And knowing that like we would handle the chat side of things in the instructions with any guidance that here the client we're going to give. Um, and, and then he would handle, how do we, uh, really make sure that we're tracking the results of these efforts and activities.

[00:16:16] It was very clear what role we each played in the client's success. So the number one thing is to identify. Are you on the same page? Do you speak the same language or are you nodding your head a lot in those conversations and those emails, are you feeling that vibe and that is where it's appropriate to, you know, sort of, um, Identify what other opportunities there are to take that relationship a level further.

[00:16:43] And we saw, you know, math's willingness is his eagerness and excitement and his happiness with the performance of chat and what an impact that was having on, on his client. Then we said, look, you know, how can we memorialize this in a way that. Is going to demonstrate your expertise, your innovation, because no one had taken sort of the ingredients that we provide at Smith AI and turn them into a dish this way.

[00:17:11] Right. And we thought, wow, this is a great way to highlight Matt and his team. Uh, how they, how they really got to the heart of the issue. You want to be able to track and account for every channel. Um, that was core to their performance. It's core to our performance. We want to be on that client's website as long as possible, because you never know when the lead is going to come in, who needs that discreet?

[00:17:41] Uh, conversation that chat allows that silent conversation, especially with law firm clients, they don't always feel comfortable getting on the phone. They don't know what they need to provide on a form fill. Um, they may not text chat is a really great way to have an initial engaging conversation and take the next step forward if it's the right match between client and partner.

[00:18:04] So I'm in client and law firms. So. I think man identified that, um, you know, he had these needs in order to execute on that, that tracking with tag manager, we had made that available and, uh, he very elegantly came up with the solution. That was pretty much identical to what we would have written ourselves and thought.

[00:18:27] This is a great way to, you know, shine the spotlight on him, uh, after all the great work that he did and the mutual clients we serve, and then to, you know, be able in an evergreen way to continue almost passively to shine the spotlight on him. You know, his name is there. It's, it's the almost opposite of the SEO approach.

[00:18:48] Let's get you a back link. You know, we do that too. On our blog. There are. Um, times when you want to assemble expertise and around ups sort of article or guest posts, and those worked very well. And you can figure out those topics that are great for SEO or great for in the moment news and updates. But with this specifically, This is a use case that I find, I send that article out probably once a week, if not more to other partners who I'm talking to.

[00:19:16] And I never hear feedback like, Oh, how dare you send us a competing agencies article? They're grateful that. You know, Matt figured that out with us and impressed by him. And I think that it's, it's great for sort of just peer appreciation and, um, opening up the conversation for maybe future documents like that, that we might ask of the next agency we work with.

[00:19:41] Um, you know, we even had a webinar with them. With CallRail and Mockingbird marketing, for example, um, how are they using CallRail in that example? Matt's not coming to me and saying, dang it, Maddie. You know, why didn't you let me in on that, you know, call rail webinar. Or maybe he'll send me an email later and complain about it now for the first time.

[00:20:03] But you know, he's not that kind of guy. And, and you have to be mindful of the partners who you work with, that you have a generous spirit and you understand there's enough room to share. There are enough opportunities for everyone. Um, as long as you're in that mindset, that, that there is a spotlight that can be shined.

[00:20:21] You know, on everyone for the right opportunity. We understand that many agencies overlap, but where is that passion project? And how does that tap into what the agency is looking to, um, be spotlighted for, and then lean into that. And you'll find that the very targeted audience that sees those content pieces, it might not be broad like SEO and get you.

[00:20:43] More, you know, domain rank link juice, but it gets you eyeballs that are actually pretty ready to buy. And they're looking for agencies to hire and that down funnel end of funnel sort of stage of those eyeballs is extremely appealing to many 

[00:20:58] Alex: [00:20:58] agencies. That's an enormous bit of advice there, especially towards the end.

[00:21:02] And I do want to dive into that key word of the mentality, the mindset, uh, the persona. So Matt, we're going to go a little bit. Into where your head's at and what you like to see and how you like to operate in case anyone listening is targeting your specific persona, but a couple of things there, when we try to put the tires on the ground, so to speak, we try to take Maddie's entire advise everything that she just mentioned.

[00:21:27] All of those great points and boil it into some actionable, go here, do this type of strategy. And Matt, the way we like to talk about this is you are. A program manager. You're, you're a head of partnerships channel sometimes is the title. You got a big undertaking with a lot of agencies that you may be handed to manage, or maybe you have a blank slate.

[00:21:47] And now you've got to figure out how to work with what types of agencies. Some of it happens organically. Some of it is demanded by the agencies where they'll just come into the program. But many times more often than not, the partner manager has to be super creative and proactive about getting an agency of your caliber into the program and then get revenue from it.

[00:22:07] They have revenue goals and quotas. So they've got to take what you have to offer. Maybe you don't even have any clients that you can bring to the table, but you have subject matter expertise. You've got a few live campaigns that Smith and CallRail could be associated with maybe call rails RDN but Smith isn't.

[00:22:26] So you'll get outreach from these individuals more often than not, maybe not in this case, but they'll reach out to you. And it'll say, Hey, Matt loved that article that you did on Smith. Can you do something like that for me? And maybe you've never heard of the tool before, but that's kind of some of the things that happen.

[00:22:43] So we try to undo that a little bit and say back up a second, let's figure out who Matt is. Let's figure out really what he does with tools is figure out what he's interested in doing. And I want to talk to you a little bit about a couple of things. So like hypothetically, I'm a product that cannot fit into your stack, right?

[00:22:59] It doesn't make sense to add it to your campaigns. What are some of the things maybe anecdotes that you have in your head agency experience, where you have worked with tech partners or just tech brands successfully in some mutually beneficial way? If anything, if not, then let's talk about the easier one, which is, Hey, I'm a natively integrated app to Smith.

[00:23:19] I love to do something like that for you. And let's kind of build a little bit of role-play conversation for those listening so we can have something that they can go and do. To take action on this, but let's start there. Yeah. So 

[00:23:30] Matt: [00:23:30] this is pretty much a unique use case for us, but, um, we have started going down the path and looking at what we can do to kind of leverage existing relationships that already exist amongst them attorneys, for example, which is who we work with.

[00:23:44] And I think there's pretty much in every single space. You're going to find partnerships that you can create value. So for example, in the legal space, there's a ton of CRMs. And different types of software products geared towards attorneys. And there's often times where you're going to find that maybe there isn't a Zapier integration, or there is an integration that works exactly how somebody expects it or wants it to work.

[00:24:06] So I think those are the types of areas that any type of agency can explore looking at adding value. That can be pretty straightforward and easy. A lot of times what we do is we look to help our clients integrate the data that comes in through the website directly into their CRM, because it. You know, really just kind of makes things easier.

[00:24:22] And if we are on that type of a relationship with them where they're sharing revenue, data and stuff like that, that helps us get a better scorecard on how we're operating and what's working and what's not. So being able to get those integrations in place could easily be a tool to use, to basically leverage other content opportunities with those CRMs or software tools or outside vendors.

[00:24:44] Alex: [00:24:44] Okay. So finding relevancy in the stack that are targeting the same vertical, the legal vertical. So I think there's what there's like Cleo, there's some other products that are Smith is integrated with. So you can go deeper into the partnerships conversation with some of those integrations partners to your stack that are also targeting legal.

[00:25:04] And then let's talk about the conversation that you'd have. So hypothetically, Matt. They didn't reach out to you. You wanted to reach out to them and formalize conversations. What would be interesting for you? What do you think you could offer? What are some of the conversations you would like to maybe start?

[00:25:19] Would it start with content? Would it start with tinkering with the app? What would you like to do with some of these integration partners? 

[00:25:25] Matt: [00:25:25] It could start with both, but I mean the easy conversation starter would be the fact that you share the same client. So you're both going to be invested in the same goals.

[00:25:32] And I think that what can work well, and Maddie's a perfect example of this, where she recognizes, Hey, we shared the same client. We have the shared, you know, shared vision and goals of having this client success suit, you know, succeed because it's good for both of our retention. So I think you can find that same type of relationship and other, other companies, and then just explore it and see where it comes.

[00:25:53] Um, in this case, it kind of, it was pretty organic. We had a simple, like, straightforward thing that we needed to solve together. And we did with others where it might be not so apparent. There's the fact that you do work in that space. So if you're a topic expert or you understand what they're trying to do, They want more leads.

[00:26:09] They want more revenue. They want to tie that revenue back to their marketing activities. So if you can create content or ideas or even some type of webinar that you can create, and co-host it with that partner, that's something that can easily be 

[00:26:22] Alex: [00:26:22] done. The content relationships, and Maddie's one of the best to do this.

[00:26:25] She's got content coming out everywhere. So the advice for Matt, um, from your angle, Obviously start with those clients. If you don't have a mutual client, go to an integration partner, start the conversation with something that you can do together. A piece of content, something bigger that aligns your two brands.

[00:26:42] See what happens. Uh, maybe even add some co-selling layers to that to make sure you're at least seeing who's coming from Smith's database into mine. And who am I bringing to Smith from my pipeline into theirs. Maybe some do some don't, but Maddie, let's talk about that. Your hit the ground running type partner enablement strategy, where hypothetically, Matt did not come to you and you were on a sales sort of routine and you saw Matt's agency.

[00:27:08] What are some of the things that you would look at? What are some of the things you would do right off the bat? I mean, pretend I'm a new partner manager of yours. I've never reached out to an agency before. What are some of the things you'd tell me to do? And then what should I reach out to Matt with?

[00:27:20] Just to make sure in conversation, 

[00:27:22] Maddy: [00:27:22] there's so many different angles here, but it's also, where is the original source of me finding mats information or Zilla metrics? Right. So if I found him on the call rail agency page, for example, um, maybe I find him on a B2B, you know, digital marketing expo, or there's a virtual trade show hall or something like that, or, or literally an event where, uh, maybe we each have a booth together, right?

[00:27:49] That alone is going to tell me something around the tech stack. That's important to Matt, uh, the audience potentially, maybe it's a legal tech show, right? Maybe it's something like that where I have an idea of who that audience is by the nature of him just being there and playing in that space. So if there is an agency that you come across first, obviously, where was it?

[00:28:11] Sourced. And what does that tell you about maybe the potential target audience or the goals and a tech stack that aligns with the values of that, of that agency? What can you deduce already from the information that you have to have a great first pitch into that agency and say, you know, it seems like you value tracking.

[00:28:32] You're using call rail. We have a help doc actually already. That explains how best to use call rail with Smith AI. To track and capture and convert more clients from the marketing campaigns you're doing for clients, right. That already is getting you in the door, speaking their language, and you sort of have to make some assumptions and you might be wrong sometimes, but oftentimes getting in the door with a more specific than a general pitch is.

[00:29:00] Helpful because the worst case scenario may be, someone's going to correct you. And they say, actually, we don't do that. You misread it. You're wrong. Um, they may not be the right partner, uh, at the end of the day at all, then based on, are they, are they willing to sort of work with you? Do they have an appetite or interest in, in trying to see where the conversation goes, but if you're right.

[00:29:21] You're often really right in the conversation kicks off in a very strong way because they sense that you're already thinking their language and you're already hitting on a need that they haven't expressed or, or even focused enough time and attention on that they need. So that conversation can be very strong in a cold way.

[00:29:39] Um, you might even find that there are ways to play. In the ecosystem together to also get more of a warm introduction. So for example, Clio, which is a, a major case management solution that Matt and I are both familiar with in the legal space, just launched their first community. And that is a space where I imagine, you know, Matt and I will both be, uh, along with other solution providers and other.

[00:30:06] Agencies that work closely with Cleo. Maybe there's a voice provider that Matt is interested in getting connected to. Maybe there is, um, an intake solution, uh, that works well with Cleo, or he learns more about Clio grow and brings that back. Back to his clients, um, and, and has Smithy. I make outbound calls to any new forms that are filled out.

[00:30:29] So there are ways to sort of see who's playing in those, in those ecosystems, in those, in those platforms of community, um, much like, you know, the great partner programs community that you've built Alex, and to always keep your eyes open for who's having conversations or asking questions that relate to your target audience.

[00:30:48] You obviously can look through on their website. Uh, if you can't deduce more information, the testimonials look up the reviews, who's writing the reviews. What sort of brand or business are they in? Um, look at their social media, look at their connections on LinkedIn. What mutual connections do you share?

[00:31:06] And does that carry a theme? You know, are they all small law firms? Are they all people in the legal tech space that gives you a pretty good sense? Um, and what is their background as well? You know, that may reflect who they ended up going into business as an agency for if they were previously working at a legal tech software company.

[00:31:25] Right? So that is a sort of a research that you can do to make sure that you have a really warm, targeted introduction and you know exactly how you can best serve that mutual client base that you'll identify together. If the conversation 

[00:31:40] Alex: [00:31:40] moves forward. Yeah, that's great tips. You know, it's, it's sometimes hard for partner managers to get in that sales mentality.

[00:31:48] And I'd like to quickly remind all the listeners, we have communities to support you in the growth of your partner programs or finding vetting and going to market with partners. If you're an agency for the tech partner teams, if you had to collective. Dot partner You can find the partner programs, collective, where there are agency led, round tables, trainings, events, everything that you would need in order to learn how to grow with agency partners.

[00:32:16] If you're an agency, head to community dot partner, that's where you'll find. More agency led round tables, the partner tracks that you need to succeed. And of course the support from everyone here at partner programs. Anyways, I'll let you get back to the episode and really do the research that's necessary and to come with the right incentives.

[00:32:37] So Matt, you are on the other end of this. You may not get a whole lot of this. Some agencies get a ton, basically the ones that are listed in directories, they will get hit up constantly by tech teams that say. I saw you were partnered with Klayvio. Would you also check out our tool and let's jump on a call and see if it's a fit, you know, that, that type of just very bland, basic, you know, not a lot of alignment off the bat, just because I'm partnered with one tool.

[00:33:04] Doesn't mean I'd partner with you. I don't know if you get that or not, but what would you suggest to the tech teams that are reaching out to agencies? What would you suggest they do prior to reaching out? And B what would you like to see in your inbox? What would make you want to reply to that calendar invite and, uh, and books?

[00:33:24] Yeah, that's a 

[00:33:24] Matt: [00:33:24] good question. Um, you know, we don't, we don't get a lot of that, but you know, when I do it, the things that resonate the most is when somebody is. Done the due diligence enough to understand the type of clients we're working with and the type of solutions that are going to benefit that. And then, you know, obviously have some type of a, you know, attractive offer hook.

[00:33:42] That's going to make sense, right? Because then whatever's going to pick somebody's attention. That's going to be the intro, you know, one way that could be helpful if they are already. Working with the client that I've found is when you reach out to people that are connected to your client and that client CC in there, and you already have that, uh, that as an intro, that email is one that's getting read.

[00:34:04] So anytime you can, you know, you basically have existing. Partners or tech stacks or people you may want to reach out to that your client or your client is currently using. And you can basically, you know, let your client know that you plan on reaching out and ask if it's okay. Being able to reach out that way with your clients.

[00:34:21] CC'd on it. It can be very effective because that's the type of email that's going to get read. It's going to get responded to quickly too, because the client's there. So that's an easy way to move that conversation from like a cold intro to. You know, basically getting on a phone call quickly. Now, if that doesn't exist, then it's basically just, what can you say?

[00:34:39] That's going to incentivize that person to want to work with you or talk. So it's almost always going to have to be something of value, whether you have a good, uh, you know, revenue sharing program, or maybe some different type of opportunities you can give exposure to that, that audience. Those are probably the two that's going to make, make somebody listen and including 

[00:34:56] Alex: [00:34:56] me.

[00:34:56] That's great advice from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Yeah. And you guys are doing a lot. You've got a lot going on. Uh, but there's, you know, there's always a necessity for creating content together with partners. So we always recommend that is a great place to start. Matt has a duty to his agency and his book of business to remain a thought leader, to be involved in those conversations that are relevant to his target clients.

[00:35:20] So help him do that. And Maddie, any final words of advice for those listening that are after agency partners? Anything that we didn't discuss? Do you have 

[00:35:29] Maddy: [00:35:29] a client base that's willing to answer surveys, ask them periodically what their tech stack is asked them. Um, you know, what. Is most important to them on the technology side and just be aware of, you know, maybe some of those opportunities that are right underneath your nose that are the lowest hanging fruit that then would lead to the testimonials that, that spark more interest and lead to those reviews.

[00:35:54] And in clients who have a tolerance of beings where the beta test case for a new partnership, the ones who are already in your space that overlap with other. Partners or agencies or solutions that's really where you want to lean into first, you know, stumble a little bit with the ones who have the greatest tolerance and where the, the agency or the partner is going to withstand a little bit of friction because you both have this mutual client and the effort is poor.

[00:36:20] Put forth there with more vigor because you, you can't, or don't want to fail for that client, but you have a really good idea that it's going to work. Um, you've seen, uh, in other cases that it does work really lean into that existing client basis. You can identify overlap and there's going to be buy-in from the get go.

[00:36:38] Um, just much more likely to have success there. And the only way to know is to, is to ask your clients, what are they using and to pinpoint well. W where do you think that overlaps with what's the greatest benefit for your, your partner program or your, your agency 

[00:36:53] Alex: [00:36:53] revenue? Oh, very cool. Very cool. All right, Maddie.

[00:36:57] I know you've got to jump here. I'll just end, uh, with an elaboration on that point there. So a good strategy we heard from, I think Cory Snyder recently survey the agencies. Well first find the agencies in your seat, RM or connected to your app by seeing who's associated with more than one account. Uh, compile a survey to those agencies, asking them what they, what they find most interesting about their relationships with their clients and also what their pain points are right now.

[00:37:28] Are they struggling with lead generation? Are they struggling? Uh, with just. Having the time to learn and develop the services, you know, what is it that is a pain point associated with their account that they're involved with. Right? And then from there you can drum up opportunities that solve that pain point to get them closer to support, or get them closer to the content or get them closer to the sales relationship.

[00:37:51] And then you can do, you're reaching out to net new agencies like those with that same sort of value proposition that you think aligns. So just some words of wisdom, Mattie that you have. A ton of, so thank you so much for that strategy. I love figuring out what's working with the survey stuff. I mean, oftentimes partner teams do surveys incorrectly or just they're fluff, you know, they're just not, there's no action behind it.

[00:38:15] And then you just kind of feel the next one's coming. And you know, I don't, I never see anything after that. There nothing happens. So thank you for mentioning that. That could be a whole separate podcast. Awesome. Well, Maddie and Matt, thank you again, man, for taking the time. This helps our ecosystem are.

[00:38:30] Has learned a ton. So thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks Alex. Thanks for having me. Of course. We'll see you guys both online and your separate communities. Collective dot partner for SAS partner teams, community dot partner to visit with Matt and the rest of the agencies and learn how to grow through these awesome tech alliances.

[00:38:49] We'll see you guys there. Thanks again to Mattie and Matt.

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